Jacques van den Broek: ‘Without a flourishing business community, we have a long-term problem’

You have transformed from the person at the controls at Randstad to supervisory board member, a position with some distance. Is there not always still an urge to get back behind the wheel?
‘No, the transition was not that incisive. And that is mainly because I fulfilled my role as CEO at Randstad by serving. I never felt the need to put my stamp on Randstad USA or France, for example, and say ‘Step aside for a moment, I will do it.’ The people knew perfectly well what they were doing. I had a coaching relationship with the entire senior management at Randstad, it was in fact, very similar to the role of a supervisory board member as I experience it now.’

But does that not make your role as CEO somewhat too small?
‘No, I think it is the other way around, often the role of a CEO is made too big.’

Could you elucidate?
‘The CEO is really not the most important person in a company. Randstad’s strength was its culture. How we interacted with each other. It is to a huge degree an egalitarian company, in which everyone is important. Or even better, I always saw it as an inverted pyramid. At the top were the customers, then the employees and only at the bottom was the management. The leadership was truly serving, intent on encouraging people to take ownership, inspiring, helping, and sometimes also keeping people focused. And certainly, also setting the course. But it was not as though that was what I was busy with most of the time.'

Should the supervisory board member also primarily be serving?
‘Yes, I think so. As a supervisory board member, you should want to be invisible, especially to the outside world. If you are not, something is wrong. So no, I do not necessarily have to press a point. That is up to management. I do want to help management. For example, by being a sounding board for them.’

It almost sounds as if being a member of the supervisory board suits you better than a role on the board of directors…
‘Well, maybe not better. But this was a logical step in my career, and I did it at the right time. I had a fantastic career at Randstad. I ended it at a good time, after we came through COVID successfully. When I left, there was a strategy that could be followed for many years. So that was a great time. Then I started orientating myself towards supervisory board positions. I genuinely took my time. And I can recommend that to everyone. To think carefully about what I wanted, to get a clear idea of ​​the type of companies I could be useful to. It quickly became clear to me that I wanted to work for ‘people-intensive organizations’ with a strong service orientation, at the heart of society. That is very much in line with what I did at Randstad.’

For Oaklins, I frequently visit executive and supervisory boards. Sometimes there are situations that require a closing of the ranks, without much time for discussion. The executive and supervisory boards need to be aligned well. In good times, a supervisory board member can use all their knowledge and experience, but in bad times there might not be time to think things over. What kind of supervisory board member are you?
‘I do not attend the meetings a few times a year and that is it. I do not impose myself, but I do like to go around and spend time to get to know the company. I chat with everyone. For example, I like to go to the Christmas party. That gives you an idea of ​​the company, of the culture. But as a member of the supervisory board, I do want to be role specific. I know my place and do not want to get in the way of the executive board. Only when it will serve a purpose do I want to step into the foreground for as long as needed. At the LUMC, the academic hospital in Leiden where I am on the supervisory board, we had an investigation into one of the directors. Then, as employer, you act as the contact person for the legal firm and the press for a while. That way you take the pressure off management. They can continue with what they need to do, and the supervisory board member faces the opposition. But the extent to which you get in or out is determined mainly by what management asks of you.’

Sometimes things go wrong in chemistry or dynamics. The CEO and CFO might not get along, for example. How do you look at the chemistry of a management team? How do you weigh that in selection? What is the first thing you do as a supervisory board member?
‘I think it is important that a supervisory board has a remuneration or talent management committee. And I also want to be on that committee. I find it interesting to be involved in talent management. To see what talents are around, who is in the top fifty. I like to be involved in team dynamics. Who takes on which role? Do people complement each other? Does everyone share the same story? I also always focus on team building. I like to bring people together. I want to hear where they come from, what moves them. That is what I am always involved in.’

You mention ‘culture’ often…
‘Always. In all those so-called different sectors, I in fact talk about the same thing, continuously. It is always about culture; it is always about leadership. And of course, it is also about where you want to be in five years – the well-known dot on the horizon. But you can only get there with the right team and the right culture. You will have to involve people in that story. Not only management, but the entire organization. You will have to explain what a certain strategy means for each individual employee. I also find this an important role of the supervisory board, to trigger management to bring back the strategy to what it means for everyone in the company.’

I second that. I have seen companies where the executives are not on the same page, roadshows where CEO and CFO are telling different stories. With no empirical evidence, it is my hypothesis that well aligned companies perform better. Is alignment where it often goes wrong?
‘Certainly. There is often no alignment. Or insufficient alignment. Strategy is often not brought back to what it means for each individual employee. Where do we want to be next year and what does that mean for you? Directors cannot predict the future, but they must be able to explain what they are striving for. And whether they think they can do that with the people they have, with the money they have. Are we doing too much, are we doing too little? What does the competition look like? It is up to a supervisory board to question that, to challenge it. In a fun way.’

In a fun way?
‘Yes, in a fun way. Because people need to feel safe with you. It needs to be pleasant.’

Yes?
‘Yes, I think that is essential. The atmosphere must be positive. Even in times of crisis. Especially then. If management needs to approach the supervisory board with something not optimal, well, it is not as though management is not aware of it. They already know things are not optimal. It is important to create a good relationship, where you can create value through open conversations. Where people view each other and the company from a positive perspective. We can work through the numbers once again, that is fine, but they already know the numbers and I already know the numbers. That is hardly interesting. What is interesting is the human aspect. How are you doing? Are you a bit happy? What does it mean to you? If you ask those questions, something usually comes up. You can achieve much more in a good atmosphere.’

Is that easier with family businesses and non-listed companies than with large, listed companies?
‘I do not believe that it necessarily differs between public or non-public. Randstad was listed, but with a family business atmosphere. With a listed company, quarterly reporting is mandatory. I always found that a pleasant rhythm. It is in fact of huge assistance. This should however not become what steers the company.
That is a difference with the role of supervisory board member. I no longer need to know how the company is doing every day. As member of the supervisory board, you must try to not get involved with the exigencies of the day. What is urgent is often not important. And what is important is often not urgent. As a supervisory board member, you should not want to discuss these exigencies too often.’

What do you see as an important leadership characteristic?
‘Optimism. I think that is a crucial leadership characteristic anyway, also for a supervisory board member. Always be optimistic. If a CEO is negative, it has an impact on the company. A supervisory board member must also radiate optimism. The moment management comes to you and says, ‘We do not know what to do anymore,’ I honestly always blossom a little. That is when you can show your value. You certainly should not take on the stress, you should absorb it. It is wonderful to look at possible solutions, to say, ‘Guys, now this is not great, but tell me, what have you been thinking about? What is on your mind?’’

Let us talk about strategic value creation... How do you see the role of the supervisory board in this?
‘Strategic value creation means that you look for what makes you as an organization stand out. What will the market look like in the future? What are we good at? What can we excel at in the future? What is our claim to fame? Can we do it all, or are we going to make sharp choices? The supervisory board needs to ask these questions. So that, ultimately, a plan is created for the next five years. But that is not where your role as supervisory board member ends. To me it is important that the supervisory board works on team building. To organize away days and to create space for discussions outside of meetings. Because nothing really happens at meetings. It all happens between meetings.'

As former CEO, you have a thorough insight in the labor market and the business climate. What is your opinion on these?
'In that respect, we have a big problem in the Netherlands and in Europe. Things are not going well. Companies here need to constantly explain what they are doing. There is insufficient appreciation and scant risk-bearing money available. As chairman of the Entrepreneurship Committee, which focuses on the growth potential of small and medium-sized enterprises, I am quite gloomy. SMEs are struggling and that is a major problem, because 70 percent of Dutch people earn their living in this sector.
I also see a direct connection with the ailing large companies. In the past, there were many large ecosystems around large companies. Around Unilever, around Philips. That is much less now. Many large companies have gone abroad. We have lost that driver. We see the productivity increase in SMEs decreasing. That is worrying. Just as it is worrying that it is difficult to find financing in the scale-up phase. That is much more difficult here than in the United States. Furthermore, you also see limited ambition in the Netherlands. And we are in an environment that holds you back. With regulations and hassle. Do not get me wrong: I think much of the regulations are legitimate, but sometimes we make things too difficult for ourselves.'

Europe lacks self-confidence, while I don’t really see a reason why. On average, Europeans are more educated than Americans. We have better infrastructure. But we seem to constantly stand in the shadow of the US and Asia. We let ourselves be intimidated. I still think there are a lot of opportunities. Suppose you were to join the supervisory board of the 'BV Nederland', what would you tackle first?
'I would immediately start working on the labor market. The system is now totally bogged down. That really needs to get moving. We will have to do something about the enormous education gap especially. We are training people for jobs that there is no demand for. We really need to start training for the work of the future. That is going much too slowly. There is no point in training 1,000 communication scientists every year if we only need 100 at most. Furthermore, we all are paying for that education. It is wonderful if someone wants to study Assyrian-Babylonian language and literature, but not if we are paying for it. We can certainly make demands on that.
Furthermore, we should force everyone to develop a plan B. What do you do if you do not make it to retirement with this job? We should already prepare people with training for plan B. Okay, your job will soon be over, but you are also trained to become a teacher, so good luck with that! That would solve the labor market problem for the coming period. We also still have far too many people who have a job that is very comfortable, but that does not add value. In fact, they are in the way. How many people in education have a job in which they do not teach? And those are comfortable jobs, that pay much more than a job in front of a class. Everything in our system says: keep your job, do not change, wait for your severance pay. And that is fatal.’

And what should the Netherlands do in terms of the business climate?
‘The Netherlands will have to take stock of itself. Just as a company needs to think about its strategy, the Netherlands must do the same. We should decide together what we want to excel at in the coming decades, determine what our sweet spot is. What we want to invest in. What can we do as a country with the space we have and with the people we have? How can we as a country strategically create value? The proverbial supervisory board of the Netherlands BV really needs to ask itself these questions. And we should become far less risk averse. Without growth, without a flourishing business community, we really have a long-term problem.’

If you look at the next ten years... what will your life as a supervisory board member look like?
‘You always need to ask yourself whether you are still relevant. I still am, because I worked with digitalization in my CEO role, because I have recent experience with diversity and inclusion and because I have recently done business internationally. I also know a good deal about labor markets. But well, in ten years that will certainly be less so. So, I need to keep a close eye on that. I want to be working for a while still. I have a reasonable golf handicap, but I am not ready for the retirement lifestyle.’

This interview was published in Management Scope 04 2025.