Sander Dekker and Maarten Otto: ‘We should not allow ourselves to be overly distracted by The Hague'

These are turbulent times, with crises in healthcare and energy, among others. How would you describe this period? Are you facing many headwinds?
Otto: ‘We have a huge societal task to build the energy system of the future. That is no small feat and will not be without its challenges. Right now, we are experiencing grid shortages in many areas of the Netherlands. Customers are affected by this, which deeply concerns me. It is often very disheartening. For the next ten years, grid shortages will persist, and that is not a cheerful message to share. The energy transition offers many opportunities but also comes with significant downsides.’
Dekker: ‘I am an optimist by nature, so I would not be quick to describe this as headwinds. The wind may not always be favorable, but we are staying on course, sailing into the wind. What I do notice is the growing pressure on healthcare. We are dealing with an aging population and staffing shortages. If things continue as they are, we will end up in a massive crisis. Something needs to change, or our system will grind to a halt.'

That does not sound like a very cheerful message to have to spread …
Otto: ‘No, but still, it is my opinion that it is vital to be very explicit about what is happening and what we are doing about it. It starts with acknowledging that we will face capacity issues in the coming years. We need to figure out how to solve this, explore alternatives, and in the meantime figure out how to manage with what we have. As a leader, I feel it is my job to honestly communicate where we stand: we are building as much as we can, while we simultaneously are trying to maximize what we can get from the existing grid. We are trying to optimize our asset as is, and at the same time we are engaging with customers about innovative solutions. In the Netherlands, the unlimited availability of energy is taken for granted. But we have not made the shift that this transition will deliver us into a new system, requiring different technologies, market models, and behaviors. And the mindset needs to shift. I have a role to play there.’

What do you, Sander, see as the biggest challenge for the coming period?
Dekker: ‘The major challenge is maintaining access to healthcare—not just now, but in five or ten years. We are seeing an enormous increase in demand as people live longer, and the older segment of the population grows. At the same time, the number of caregivers is shrinking. There are already severe staffing shortages. The challenge is: how do we deliver more care with fewer people? We need to reorganize healthcare. How can we use our limited resources and staff as efficiently as possible? What must remain in hospitals, and what can be moved elsewhere? And how can we prevent healthcare demand through better prevention?’

That also demands something from you as leaders. What type of leadership do you think is required in 2025? You often hear terms like ‘personal leadership,’ ‘connecting leadership,’ ‘inspiring leadership,’ and ‘courageous leadership.’
Dekker laughs: ‘Sorry, I always get a bit uneasy with words like ‘leaders’ and ‘leadership.’ Personal attention, inspiration, connection—of course, those are all important. But I come from The Hague, where people who talk pompously about themselves are quickly labelled as ‘conceited big shots.’ But that is something else —more akin to being insufferable!’
Otto: ‘What is inspiring leadership? You cannot just go somewhere and buy some inspiring leadership. Or some connecting leadership. These are just terms. They often represent what people are searching for, but how it manifests is usually very personal. For me, leadership ultimately boils down to what you do, how you learn, and what you contribute to moving things forward. I primarily use my internal compass to navigate. That means I try to be open, to listen, and to learn from my mistakes.
What also helps is the ability to see things in perspective. I am just one of thousands of employees at Alliander—no more or less than anyone else. At the same time, I am aware that my position draws attention. Everything I say and do is observed. In everything I ask for, I aim to lead by example. That way, I try to ensure that others can create as much value as possible for our customers and for society. I see it as my job to make sure that the people in our organization can be the best version of themselves.’
Dekker: ‘I think that as an executive, you also need to make sure you keep a clear view of the horizon. Where are we headed? What should healthcare look like in five or ten years? And what steps are needed to get there? Most people in healthcare are focused on their daily agendas, which is understandable. If you are a doctor, your schedule is packed every day, leaving little time to think about the future of healthcare. But we must make time to address this together. It is about finding the right balance between focusing on the present and planning for the future. We need to keep the ‘shop’ open while doing the renovations. A leader must provide space, attention, and support to new and different approaches.’

You are part of a new generation of leaders or executives, both in your forties and both active in the public domain. Maarten, I notice that you have a very open way of communicating, especially on LinkedIn. What is the reason for that?
Otto: ‘I do it this way mainly because of my interpretation of my role. I think it is important to show where we are with the energy transition and what we are doing about it. I want to tell an honest, realistic story. I also believe I have a role model function in this. I want my colleagues to feel free to also tell the honest story. I have resolved that I want to be very assertive in my communication, not sugarcoating things.’

There is a lot of headwind and resistance in society, with polarization on the rise. How do you deal with that?
Dekker: ‘We still have the advantage of working on collective services which everyone agrees are necessary. Healthcare and energy provision are, in that sense, not immediately controversial, although the energy sector does face debates about how fast and to what extent we should transition to sustainability. In my sector, it is different. No one is against good healthcare. Yet, we also experience the effects of a more exacting society.’
Otto: ‘It sometimes is pretty harsh ‘outside,’ and that impacts our work. I have to admit that we do have many customers who are dissatisfied with our service. Sometimes, it gets intense. At the same time, society is becoming harsher. One in five of our field staff has encountered inappropriate behavior. That is something we are concerned about and we are paying attention to. We try to train staff to handle resistance, provide extra customer communication training, ensure team leaders are nearby, and, in some cases, send a security officer along. It is about being there for your people, staying in touch with the works council, going on-site for jobs, drinking coffee in the cafeteria, and ensuring aftercare is in place. This is how we try to manage it. It is important to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with each other.’
Dekker: ‘Aggression towards healthcare staff is a big problem. We also need to stand up for our employees. Sometimes we need to tell patients: ‘You are always welcome in our hospital, but there are boundaries. If you behave aggressively and continue to do so, you are no longer welcome.’ Of course, we issue warnings first, but I also consider it important to stand up for my people. Providing backup is crucial.’

You both seem to emphasize focusing on the long term. However, The Hague is not exactly known for its long-term vision. What is your perspective on this? What do you expect from politics as executives? And what can politics expect from you?
Otto: ‘I see it as my task to help politics understand the consequences of certain choices. It is not my role or within my authority to choose between all the alternatives. But I can make it clear: if you choose A, it will impact B, C, and D. Generally, these impacts are not explicitly illuminated in politics. It often is an uncomfortable message that does not go down well electorally. The awareness of the consequences of choices needs a more prominent place on the political and public agenda. Involve people in the considerations and do not ignore potential downsides. Navigating transitions requires choices, and choices have consequences. To quote a former prime minister: ‘Not everything is possible, and not everything can happen at the same time.’ Be transparent about that.’
Dekker: ‘The transitions we are undergoing will be in effect for longer than a cabinet term, and longer than an election cycle. I believe we should not let ourselves be too distracted by The Hague. We must be careful not to use the political situation as an excuse. It is not as though if The Hague does nothing, we cannot achieve anything either. We can do a lot ourselves. We do not necessarily need The Hague for that.’
Otto: ‘That certainly puts things in perspective. Our networks are designed to last at least 40 years. They will outlive many cabinets and various geopolitical developments. The people we serve, who use our networks, that is who we do it for. Our societal mission does not change with the political winds. People will still want their lights to turn on and their homes to be warm 40 years from now.’
Dekker: ‘I find some of the government’s decisions hard to follow. Cutting funding for nursing education is a terrible idea. If there is anywhere we should invest in people, this is it.’

I hear a lot of concerns and challenges. Are there also some positives?
Dekker: ‘Absolutely, I am very optimistic about the opportunities digitalization offer. Digitalization in healthcare is controversial sometimes because, in healthcare, human contact is vital. I would never argue otherwise. But digitalization can relieve the burden on healthcare and give people more control over their own lives. We are currently working on a project around digital home monitoring. What can be done remotely? This reduces the burden on hospitals, improves care and makes it more personalized. It is a long journey, and we are truly pioneering.
What is also positive is the increased focus on value in healthcare. In the past, we were assessed based on the number of treatments. Now, we are signing value-driven contracts with insurers, focusing more on what constitutes good care and prioritizing quality of life.’
Otto: ‘We should not forget where we come from. Sometimes it helps to look not just at the photo but at the movie. Not just where we are and what needs to improve, but also where we come from and what we have achieved. So yes, we do face strong headwinds, but if you watch the movie, you will see, for instance, that we have managed to triple our investments in five years. I find it important to emphasize to my team: we are doing good work, and we should be proud of it. Customers are annoyed by the waiting list, but at the same time, we did more work last year than we did the year before.’
Dekker: ‘I am concerned about the political climate and the rougher tone you see online and in the streets. But we also need to guard against the sentiment that everything was better in the past. That is simply not true. Look at what we have now and what our possibilities are. When one then does want to speak about leadership, I think the key lies in endurance, providing a clear perspective, and optimism. And that, especially in times of uncertainty, people need a sense of calm and stability.’

This interview was published in Management Scope 02 2025.