Pinar Abay (ING): ‘My Appointment Was a Bold Move for the Bank’

Her Dutch? She can read Dutch and understands a bit. Speaking is more difficult. ‘Some of my Dutch colleagues switch to Dutch more often now so that I can learn it. I welcome that. I would like to understand the language well. Not necessarily to use it to communicate - that works fine in English. But to understand the subtleties. The details. These inform you about the culture.

Tell us something about your background. Where did you grow up?
'My family is from Central Anatolia, in the heart of Turkey. For hundreds of years, my family roots have been in Kayseri, the capital of the Kayseri province, known for its many small retailers, entrepreneurs and family businesses. My parents later moved to the Turkish city of Ankara. I was the first in the family to attend university. I owe a great deal to my mother, who always encouraged me to go the extra mile. After completing my economics studies in Ankara, I was supposed to leave for the United States to get my PhD. But things turned out somewhat differently when, still in Turkey, I was approached by McKinsey. One year later, I finally ended up in the US and went to Silicon Valley for a job. I had to show my parents on the map where that was.’

What drew you to Silicon Valley?
‘I was attracted by the entrepreneurship. Apparently that is deeply embedded in the fiber of someone from Kayseri. Silicon Valley was booming. I really wanted to witness that. I guess it says something about the kind of person I am. I find it interesting to cross hurdles and challenge myself. But in the end, I always managed to survive, even if at times it was uncertain and challenging.'

Eventually, you returned to Turkey....
‘That too had to do with entrepreneurialism. At that time - it was 2007 - the Turkish economy was growing very fast. I thought it would be interesting to play my part in the financial sector in my homeland and was given the opportunity. On top of that, I had recently become a mother and was looking for a different work-life balance in my life. Turkey seemed like a sensible choice in that regard. Close to family.
When I was back in Turkey for a few years, ING reached out to me. They just completed a major acquisition. And I had been interfering with that from the sideline; I had some thoughts on the way this new bank should be run. Why do you not do it yourself, they asked. I was just 34. I hesitated for a while, as my second child had just been born, but of course I eventually decided to do it. How often do you get the chance to become CEO of an organization with 6,000 people? As a young woman? In Turkey?

What was your experience of that?
‘It was a demanding adjustment. In many meetings, I was the only woman and the youngest person too. It perhaps says much about me that I said yes. But it probably says even more about ING that they asked me. The banking world in Turkey was really a traditional bastion. Moreover, Oyak Bank, which ING had acquired, was a rather conservative bank with its origins in the Turkish armed forces. ING deliberately selected me: a young, modern Turkish woman with international experience and, in addition, digital savvy. The intention must have been for this woman to shake things up and make the bank more digital. That is where ING showed real guts. I think it is also the main reason why I love this bank so much. Here, young, talented people from diverse backgrounds are offered great opportunities. Believe me, as consultant I have had the chance to observe many banks, but no bank in the world is as diverse and talented as here. I think there are many ‘Pinar stories’ at ING.'

You often mention entrepreneurship. Clearly it is important to you - does ING have sufficient entrepreneurship in its DNA?
‘Oh yes, I think internationally we are the most entrepreneurial bank. In the world of finance, people often talk about neobanks, the new disruptors on the market. But ING, with ING Direct, itself is the world's biggest neobank. You only need to consider the developments we have made over the past decade. We were the first bank that 15 years ago dared to run a major advertising campaign to get people into online banking. Now everything is mobile. In Australia, Canada and Spain, we started from scratch. So yes, entrepreneurship is embedded in this bank. We genuinely have a huge entrepreneurial culture and heritage.

To what extent does that reflect in the strategy?
‘It is the very reason why I called our retail strategy I recently presented Be First. It is a reference to this distinct entrepreneurial culture. Each day anew, we should want to be the first. I believe in that. Consider history: the people who end up second are hardly remembered. The champions are. I see it as an obligation to the history and culture of ING to propagate these values.'

Does that also say something about your leadership?
‘When it comes to leadership, I believe ‘providing opportunities’ to be one of the most important core tasks. As a leader, I find it incredibly important to spend the necessary time to attract the best talent and to then give those people opportunities. Giving people the confidence that they can do things. That is possible here. It creates energy. I always tell candidates that I have not yet come across any sharks here. We have a culture of helping each other to succeed. It is for that reason - for that orange culture, as we call it - that I love to work here. As a leader, on the one hand, I set ambitious goals for myself and for my team. But, at the same time, I want to create an environment where people do their best for each other from their very core. When you combine these two things, very quickly something magical happens.’

Do you consider yourself a role model?
‘When I think of the term role model, I always feel a bit uncomfortable. But I like to spend my life for the greater good. As a woman from a different background, I hope to be an example. I have also been committed to female empowerment for a long time. I still see significant room for improvement when it comes to female leadership. Now that I am on the board of ING, I do feel an extra sense of responsibility. Within ING, I am also committed to the so-called lionesses network, our global network for female employees. It is a Leitmotiv for me to empower women in this world. This is probably because I am from a culture where things are more difficult for women.’

You praise the diversity in your teams and the international character. Do you notice cultural differences?
'Of course there are differences. When I went to work for ING in Brussels, I was immediately warned that the Dutch and Belgians were completely different. There is a fine line between respecting the local culture and finding shared values.
If you manage to create a culture of cooperation, people will be more likely to look for those commonalities. In Belgium, ING is known for its excellent relationships. That also fits the Belgian culture: you take a bit more time for each other. You should not want to change that. Even better: you should learn from it and assimilate the positives. The cultures are different, but by identifying what everyone excels at, you can only benefit. What is the gift that everyone brings to the table? That is the question you need to keep asking.’

There has been much publicity in recent years around shortcomings in banks' risk and money laundering policies. How do you see this?
‘People are allowed to make mistakes, in my opinion. I make mistakes myself. We should learn from them and hope we do not make the same mistake a second time. I want to be tolerant about this. The one area where I draw a red line is integrity issues. I do not accept it when ethical boundaries are crossed. We are allowed to make mistakes, but dishonest behavior - to the customer, to your colleagues, to anyone - I will never accept.’

What do you want to achieve in the coming period?
‘I want to grow and change the way millions of people do their banking. We want to add one million more customers per year. The mission is to make banking more accessible for current and future customers. Better advice, less hassle. I see that as my main tasks. I see the financial results as a derivative of that.
Furthermore, my focus for the coming period will be on small and medium-sized enterprises. I see these as a very important growth market for us. This year, for example, we launched a savings product focused on German SME customers. This was immediately well adopted. We are now going to do the same in Italy and Australia. I seek the higher goal in all things. That includes our climate goals, for example. This is an important issue for us. We have a very large mortgage portfolio and we can create an impactful difference when it comes to making homes more sustainable. We want to act together with our customers in this area, also by advising and guiding them well.’

Speaking of climate targets, there is also a lot of criticism of ING from society, especially from climate activists. They feel that ING is doing far too little and far too slow …
'That has not escaped my notice. I think they are targeting us partly because we are so big. You are then more visible. And that is good too. Still, I dare say that climate goals are in the capillaries of our company. We take our sustainability goals extremely seriously and we are, in fact, always searching for ways to accelerate in a responsible way. The only question is: is the glass half empty or half full? In my opinion, it is half full. And part of my job is to get the glass even fuller.'

What is the biggest challenge?
‘The biggest challenge is with us. We need to above all operate faster. There is a significant entrepreneurial spirit in this bank, but we are also a large organization and that sometimes comes at the expense of speed of execution. We are very good at identifying opportunities, but sometimes we still operate like a big company. That is where I see opportunities. Faster operations are essential. People switch banks quite easily these days. It really is only a matter of going to the app store: deleting one banking app and downloading another. It is done in a few minutes. That presents an opportunity but also a threat.'

Looking at the somewhat longer term, where will ING be in 10 years? And where will Pinar Abay be by then?
‘I hope to still be here, although you never know how things will turn out in life, of course. But this country suits me well, the Dutch culture appeals to me. Meanwhile, I have become quite ‘orange’. And furthermore, I hope that in 10 years' time, we will be a bank which is loved by millions of people. I always hear that people cannot love banks, but I dispute that. And I want to work for an easy and frictionless banking system that serves the customer.’

Are your parents proud of you?
(Laughs). ‘I think so. My father unfortunately passed away. And my mother - you will have to ask her that yourself... She still does not quite understand what I do, and she thinks mostly that I travel too much and work too much, but I am sure she is very proud of me. And, like any Turkish mother, she always wants to know if I am eating well.’