Mark Rutten (Swinkels): ‘We can make bigger investments’

What prompted you to switch from Heineken to Swinkels after so many years?
‘One of the main reasons was that I was ready for a new step. At Heineken, I had been financially responsible for the two most important regions. And then the question arose: what now? Could I become CFO, for example? Well, I did not feel that was the case. So, at some point, it is time to draw your conclusions, and I consciously chose a company where I could take on an entrepreneurial role. My personal situation also played a role: after fifteen years abroad, I was a bit done with 'abroad,' partly because of the children and also because of my aging parents and parents-in-law.’

What was the reaction at Heineken when you told them you had a great new job?
‘The reaction was generally positive. If you look at it objectively, we are talking about a different playing field. Heineken plays in a different league than we do. If I had left for a publicly traded competitor, it would certainly have been a bigger problem. In the end, we were able to make a smooth transition. I announced my departure six months in advance and continued working until my successor was settled in.’

From sunny Miami to somewhat cloudy Lieshout…
‘Yes, that took some adjustment. For my whole family. In recent years, we have always lived in sunny climates, with temperatures above thirty degrees Celsius. In Miami, I grew my own bananas. Right outside in the garden. I do miss that. But otherwise, I am glad to be back. And I am especially happy with my new role here. Working in tandem with the CEO – that is a very nice game.’

At Swinkels, you are indeed part of a two-person executive board, alongside CEO Peer Swinkels. Did you already know him?
‘A little. We had bumped into each other a few times over the past few years. And we always got along well. I think that is important in this constellation. You have to get along well, trust each other, dare to tell each other the truth. Stand side by side. Although, of course, there is always a hierarchy.’

A ‘marriage made in heaven’?
‘Well, the honeymoon period is over. Every now and then we can clash spectacularly. It is a cliché, but there has to be mutual respect. Furthermore, you have to complement each other, form a tandem. We work well together and do a lot of things together. For example, in the beginning, I always gave the CFO talk to our certificate holders. Peer gave the business update, and I the financial update. Last time, we did it differently and each presented the update for an entire division. That worked really well. It is great to work together. With many CEOs, you sometimes see their egos get in the way. That is not the case with Peer. He has a sense of humor and self-deprecation and can put things into perspective. I think those are great qualities.’

What probably plays a role in this family business is that you do not have the surname 'Swinkels'?
‘I cannot deny that. But I do not think that this is a negative for this company, as the family wants to have someone from outside on the board. Someone who brings a fresh, professional perspective to the business. A family business is full of emotion. It is good to maintain a good mix with reason. Someone who objectively assesses and balances the situation. I, to an extent, also see that as my role.’

How do you, as an outsider, experience the family's ‘involvement’?
‘The family plays a major role here. More than two hundred family members hold certificates. Nearly twenty members of the Swinkels family work in the company, at every level. Among them are now members of the eighth generation, with the ninth generation knocking on the door. That is incredibly special. It creates a great deal of involvement, but also a certain dynamic and evokes certain emotions.
I was fortunate that a completely new governance structure had already been put in place in the years before I arrived. There is now an external supervisory board, and Peer and I report to them. The supervisory board reports to the certificate holders – to the family, represented in a trust office foundation. This was a significant step towards professionalization. Before, five cousins ​​were in charge, while one of them also handled the CFO role. You cannot imagine that now. I think it is solid now. That the roles are clear.’

What do you think explains Swinkels' success?
‘I think the two key concepts are 'entrepreneurship' and 'courage.' Ten years ago, for example, the decision was made to start brewing beer in Ethiopia. At the time, the company operated only its own breweries in Belgium and the Netherlands. No experience in Africa and then setting up a brewery with thousands of local Ethiopian shareholders? There are not many companies that do that or dare to do that. It also has to do with a business and commerce sense. At Swinkels, and in the past at Bavaria, they have always had this knack. Brewing beer alone is not what makes a difference. But selling beer is something that requires talent.’

You operate in a few notable countries, such as Ethiopia and Cuba. It does not seem like the easiest route to take. Even from a geopolitical perspective, it is quite a risk...
‘That is right. But our strength lies precisely in that diversity. We have been active in various markets worldwide for many years and have built lasting partnerships there. This long-term presence ensures that we understand the local context well and can create value together with our partners. Growth in the beer market has long since ceased to come from traditional countries. That is why we are consciously looking further ahead, with a long-term vision and confidence in the markets where we operate.’

You are praised for your circularity policy. ‘The world's first emission-free malting facility,’ and ‘the world's most sustainable brewery’ for three years in a row are some of the accolades I have come across. Is it not difficult to roll out your ambitious sustainability agenda in countries like Ethiopia and Cuba?
‘We have had our own index for circular entrepreneurship for years: the Swinkels Circularity Index. We have always been at the forefront with this, long before ESG or CSRD even existed. We set clear targets and constantly try to take new steps. But you do indeed notice that this is easier to do in the Netherlands and Belgium than in Cuba or Ethiopia. On a very practical level, we would love to install solar panels on our brewery in Cuba. But the government is not cooperating. It is not allowed. They do not want to lose the income from oil and gas. Things like these are difficult to break through. International ambitions make the pursuit of ’complete circularity’ more difficult.’

Can we have a look at your role. As CFO, how do you balance the short and long term? When should a euro start to yield a return?
‘That is always the crucial question. Many of the sustainability investments you make are for the next generation. These investments are not always hundred percent justifiable when you look at a five- or ten-year horizon. The advantage of family businesses is that they are always focused on the long term. Listed companies place more emphasis on financial results in the here and now. We do not have to think quarterly. But as CFO, I do believe that we have to deliver on an annual basis. Dividends have to be paid to the family, and investments have to yield results. It is about stewardship on the one hand and identifying and seizing opportunities on the other. It is one of the CFO's most difficult dilemmas.’

What does that mean for Swinkels in concrete terms? Where does the balance lie here?
‘I notice that the company by nature often adopts a cautious and reserved approach. From the family's perspective, I understand that perfectly. They prefer not to be too dependent on banks and to manage risks as much as possible. That is also in line with the long-term vision with which the company is managed. At the same time, I believe that this sometimes limits our growth opportunities. Swinkels has always been entrepreneurial and has achieved a great deal with this approach, but I think there are times now at which we could show a little more courage and dare to make larger investments.’

The one to push for more risk. Somewhat unusual for a CFO…
‘Yes, that is perhaps the opposite of what you would expect from a CFO. The average CFO might warn to hold on and take it easy.’

What will ‘your’ Swinkels look like in five years?
‘More international growth. Expanding in South and Central America and Africa. Through acquisitions or by building new breweries ourselves. The bottom line is that you have to spread the risks across the globe. When things are not going well on one side of the world, you still have a brewery on the other side that is doing well. More diversification, less ‘Dutch’. We need to think more internationally.’

But it is, after all, a Dutch family?
‘Certainly. But if we look at where we can have the greatest impact, it is not in the Netherlands. Not even now. Ultimately, the Netherlands is only a small part of our portfolio, but it receives a great deal of our attention. We need to start thinking and working in a much more multinational way.
We must dare to change. We can purchase much better if we leverage scale. We have been working with the same suppliers for a long time. That has major advantages but also disadvantages in terms of costs: some suppliers take advantage of this relationship and add a few percent every year. That becomes serious money, which we need to do other good things with. So, we need to stay sharp, even if we have been working together for a long time. I see that as part of my role, to drive that forward.’

In your role as CFO and member of the executive board, you are also one of the drivers of digitization at Swinkels. How is that going?
‘We are in the middle of a multi-year rollout of our new SAP S/4HANA platform. We are moving towards the same way of working in all countries where we operate. At the time of this interview, Belgium is making the transition. SAP rollouts are demanding processes, and you occasionally see some implementation fatigue setting in within the organization. ‘We have been working on this for four years now, and every time another country is added.’ That is why we recently decided to take a break in 2026. GBB in Georgia has joined Swinkels on January 1, 2025. My hard, rational side says: push ahead and switch to the new system immediately. But at the same time, I have noticed that now and then you need to create some breathing space. Otherwise, you end up in a kind of merry-go-round and just keep running. Sometimes you have to take some extra time to extract the value and benefits from the system. That is what we are trying to do now.’

Is Swinkels not, at its core, more of a sprinter than a marathon runner?
‘Yes, perhaps. The risk is that after a number of sprints, your legs will be become heavy. That is why we made this decision. But I think fundamentally you are right. We are extremely good at sprints. The downside is that it is sometimes difficult to maintain certain themes. You then notice the tendency to rush on to the next thing. In IT, I play the classic role of CFO: discipline, budget, timeline. That is when I occasionally show my teeth.’

What is your take on AI? How far have you progressed?
‘We are still mainly in the experimental phase, with several use cases that are live. Marketing is quite advanced; we are working on projects in several departments, such as communications, planning, and purchasing. Also on the customer side. We have built a great customer portal where our customers can see exactly how deliveries are progressing – how many pallets can still fit in a container. This allows them to order more efficiently. There are real opportunities, but for AI too, you need to create the mental space for it.’

What are your personal ambitions?
‘I am super happy in my CFO role. I see myself as a relatively commercial CFO, close to the business. Over the past twenty-five years, I have often been asked whether I had ambitions to become CEO or commercial director. But no, I feel comfortable in this role. Especially in the way it is being implemented here. Maybe it would be good for me to accept a supervisory board role somewhere. That seems interesting at this stage of my career: to share knowledge and to learn for my role here. It can be instructive to sit on the other side of the table.’

Is there anything you miss about Heineken?
‘Mainly some of the people. I worked there for a quarter of a century, so some colleagues have become friends. And I sometimes miss the budgets and the opportunities. The stick at Heineken is longer. You can reach a little further.’

What is your favorite beer?
‘I think I would choose Swinckels, our premier pilsner. And then maybe the zero-alcohol version. I have really become a zero-alcohol drinker. It also fits better with a busy schedule. I really enjoy a La Trappe too. And do I still drink a Heineken every now and then? I will put it this way: you will never see me with a Hertog Jan (from Heineken’s competition AB InBev) in my hand. I would rather have a cup of coffee.’

This interview was published in Management Scope 09 2025.